Do Casino Player Cards Rigged

1. Play Free Slot-Style Social Casino Games at HollywoodCasino.com. These games are intended for use only by those 21 or older, and only for amusement purposes. No actual money or anything of value can be won playing these games. Practice or success at social casino gaming does not imply future success at real-money gambling. Gambling Problem?
2. Yep they are rigged but not how u may think. Cards are clumped over time when people play basic strategy. If you play enough you will observe that the dealer busts less tgan on a hand shuffle bj game. Any answer to the contrary is either by a novice or a casino staff member. Play hand shuffle for better odds, assuming you play basic strategy.
3. Some games are way more of a ripoff than others — even by casino standards.

Are Casino Games Rigged? Every now and then, players wonder if casino games are fair, especially after they have lost badly. And, this is completely understandable because gambling does have serious financial consequences. At the end of the day, your goal is to make some money. They rig the game by writing the rules such that the house wins a larger share of the money than the players. It isn’t very complicated. Here is how it works. Suppose we play a game. I lay down 5 cards, 3 black, 2 red. Now you are allowed to place a bet at 1-to-1 odds that you can pick a red card from the 5 face down cards.

One of the most common questions you’ll see about anything in the casino gambling industry relates to “honesty”. You’ll see this question asked about every casino game under the sun. You’ll also see it asked about every casino, especially the online gambling sites.

In this post, I want to address this specific question:

Are slot machines honest?

How Do You Define Honest?

When I use Google to look for a definition of honesty, I see some of the following definitions listed:

• “Free of deceit and untruthfulness”
• “Sincere”
• “Morally correct or virtuous”
• “Fairly earned, through hard work”

I think most people are thinking of the first definition when they ask whether slots games are honest. They want to make sure they’re not being cheated. In this context, the answer is yes, slot machines are honest. I’ll explain why in detail in the rest of this post.

In the second context, where “honest” means “sincere”—I’m less sure. Are the casinos sincere when they want you to think you’re able to win money? I think so, but they know in the long run, anyone who plays slots long enough will lose all their money.

In the third and fourth contexts, I’d have to say that slot machines are NOT honest. Slot machines are closer to morally neutral than they are to sinful, but you might have a different belief system about such things. It’s hard to say that slots don’t appeal to one of the seven deadly sins, though (greed).

I’m not sure anyone could (or would) consider money won on a slot machine “earned” or to have anything to do with “hard work”. It’s a game of luck. If you win, then you got lucky—it has nothing to do with working hard or being smart.

I’ll explain more about that later in this post, too.

How a Slot Machine Works Mathematically

Answering the question “are slot machines honest?” begins with learning how the games work mathematically. The math behind the games is easier to understand than most people probably think.

The first concept to understand is basic probability. When someone says “probability”, they’re talking about the mathematical likelihood that something is going to happen. That “something” is called an event.

The probability of an event is always represented as a number between 0 and 1. An event that will always occur no matter what has a probability of 1. An event that will never occur has a probability of 0. An event that will occur half the time has a probability of 0.5.

For simplicity’s sake, and to make understanding the concept easier, I just used whole numbers and decimals in the previous paragraph. But probabilities are almost always expressed as percentages or fractions.

How to Express Probability as a Percentage

You’re watching the evening news, and the meteorologist says there’s a 50% chance of rain tomorrow.

Do Casino Player Cards Rigged Money

That means it’s just about as likely to rain as it is to not rain.

Here’s another example:

You flip a coin. You have a 50% chance of it landing on heads. You also have a 50% chance of it landing on tails.

If you add the probabilities of all possible events together, you always get a total of 1 (or 100%).

Probability is the mathematical engine that makes gambling games possible.

How to Calculate a Probability

Here’s how you calculate a probability:

You take the number of ways an event can happen. You divide that by all the total events possible (including what can happen and what happens if it doesn’t.)

You’re rolling a single six-sided die. You want to know the probability of getting a 6.

There are 6 possible outcomes. Only one of them is a 6.

The probability of getting a 6 is 1/6.

Another way to express that is using odds, which can be useful when calculating whether a bet is expected to be mathematically profitable or not.

Bovada Casino Rigged

Odds expresses the number of ways something can’t happen versus the number of ways it can happen.

In the six-sided die example, the odds of getting a 6 are 5 to 1. You have 5 ways of NOT rolling a 1, and only 1 way of rolling a 1.

If you want to calculate a probability that includes the word “or”, you add the probabilities of the events together.

If you want to calculate a probability that includes the word “and”, you multiply the probabilities by each other.

You want to know the probability of getting a 1 or a 2 on a roll of a six-sided die. The probability of each is 1/6.

1/6 + 1/6 = 2/6

You can reduce that to 1/3.

Here’s another example:

You roll 2 dice. You want to know the probability of getting a 6 on both dice. The probability of each is 1/6.

1/6 X 1/6 = 1/36

Applying Probability to a Simple Hypothetical Slot Machine Game

But how does all this apply to the honesty of slot machines?

I’ll use a super simple hypothetical slot machine game to explain how this probability affects the integrity of the game.

This super simple game has 3 symbols on each reel—an orange, a lemon, and a cherry.

The probability of getting a lemon on the first reel is 1/3.

The probability of getting a lemon on the second reel is also 1/3.

In fact, it’s the same on each reel.

But the game only pays off if you get 3 of the same symbol on each reel.

The probability of that is 1/3 X 1/3 X 1/3, or 1/9.

Let’s suppose the payoff for getting 3 lemons is 4 for 1.

And let’s suppose the payoff for getting 3 cherries is 3 for 1.

Finally, we’ll suppose the payoff for getting 3 oranges is even money.

• The probability of winning 4 coins is 1/9.
• The probability of winning 3 coins is also 1/9.
• The probability of winning 1 coin is also 1/9.
• The probability of winning nothing is 6/9, or 2/3.

Now let’s suppose you’re putting $1 in on every spin, and you play 9 spins, getting every possible result once.

You win 4 coins once. You win 3 coins once. You win 1 coin once. That’s a total of 8 coins you’ve won.

But you’ve inserted 9 coins into the game.

Where did the extra coin go?

In the pockets of the casino, that’s where.

By setting up the payoffs so that they’re lower than the odds of winning, the casino sets up a situation where it’s guaranteed a mathematical profit over the long run.

Of course, most modern slot machines aren’t quite this simple. They have more symbols on each reel, for one thing. For another, the probability of getting a particular symbol might be different from the probability of getting another symbol.

For example, you might have a 2/3 probability of getting a pear, and only a 1/24 probability of getting a cherry.

What Happens in the Long Run vs. the Short Term?

By manipulating the payoffs and the probabilities of the symbols, the casino can guarantee that over a long period and many spins, they’ll profit.

But in the short run, a player might win a big jackpot or lose several times in a row.

That’s the nature of random events. In the short run, anything can happen. In the long run, the numbers get closer to the theoretical probability.

This is obvious when you look at it with an extreme example.

On an infinite number of spins, your average loss per spin will mirror the mathematical expectation.

The closer you get to an infinite number of spins, the closer you’ll get to the mathematical expectation.

Do Slot Machines Cheat?

The casinos don’t need to cheat to make a healthy profit.

The slot machine designers and manufacturers don’t need to cheat to make a healthy profit.

In fact, in well-regulated jurisdictions (like Nevada), games are thoroughly audited for fairness. When they’re auditing a game for fairness, one of the things they check is whether a game has a jackpot that’s impossible to win.

That’s the main concern many players have when they ask if slot machines cheat.

Does the game have jackpots that are impossible to win?

The short answer in almost every case is no, they don’t.

But you have no way of knowing what the probability of winning that jackpot is. Slot machine games have opaque odds and probabilities. The results are generated by a computer program called a random number generator (RNG).

The only people who know the exact settings for that RNG are the designers and the casino managers.

In fact, you could be playing two identical slot machines located right next to each on the casino floor and have different odds of winning. Not only is this legal, it’s common.

Does that sound like cheating?

By the strict letter of the law, it’s not.

Is it honest?

I’d say yes. Having two games next to each other offering different odds is intentionally misleading. It’s legal, but it’s not sincere in any way.

Online slot machines are no different, except that in some cases, these games HAVE been known to cheat. But not reputable casinos and not reputable software providers.

How do they cheat?

They set up games which are impossible to win.

The reasons baffle me. You stand to make far more money in the long run if you offer an honest game.

Even an idiot can tell after a while that he’s never going to win a rigged casino game on the Internet.

But otherwise smart people will continue to deposit money and wager it at a breakneck pace if they’re winning something every now and then, even if they’re showing a net loss over time.

That’s how gambling works.

What About Video Poker Games?

You need to understand immediately that video poker games are NOT the same thing as slot machine games. They look similar on the surface, but the math and the gameplay couldn’t be more different. And the philosophy behind these games is different, too.

Here’s why:

A video poker machine uses a random number generator that duplicates the odds found in a 52-card deck of cards. You know the probability of getting a specific symbol. Any specific card has a 1/52 probability of appearing.

A card of a specific suit has a ¼ probability of appearing. A card of a specific rank has a 1/13 probability of appearing.

Payback Percentages and the House Edge

Knowing this enables mathematicians and computer programs to calculate the actual payback percentage for these games.

What’s a payback percentage?

It’s the percentage of each bet that’s paid back to the player on average in the long run. It’s the opposite of the house edge.

On a slot machine, you have no way of calculating a game’s payback percentage. It’s impossible, because you have no way of knowing the probability of getting a specific symbol.

But on a video poker game, you can calculate all the possibilities. And since you know how much the game pays out for various combinations, you can add the expected value of each to get an overall payback percentage for the game.

And you know what’s even better than this?

The payback percentages for video poker games are significantly higher than the payback percentages on slot machines in almost every case.

Even the worst video poker game usually has a payback percentage of 95% or so. But the better games offer payback percentages in the 98%+ range. Some (rare) games have pay tables which offer a slightly positive game for the player, like 100.2%. But those numbers assume perfect strategy on your part.

But even the best slot machine games usually have a payback percentage in the 95% range. The more common games slip down into the lower 92% or so range.

Expected Hourly Loss Rates in Slot Machine Games vs. Video Poker Games

What does this mean to your bankroll?

Let’s look at how much money you can mathematically expect to lose playing 2 different games:

We’ll start with an average slot machine game with a 94% payback percentage. You’re playing for $1 per spin, and you’re making 600 spins per hour. You expect to win 94% of each bet back, which means you expect to lose 6% of each bet.

6% of $600 is $36, which is the amount the casino expects you to lose on this game on average over time.

Then we’ll consider a 9/6 Jacks or Better game which you’re playing with perfect strategy. The payback percentage for this game is 99.54%, which means the house edge is 0.46%.

We’ll assume you’re playing a quarter machine and betting 5 coins per hand. You’re putting a little more money into action on each bet–$1.25. Most video poker players are as fast as slot machine players; they play 600 hands per hour. That’s $750/hour in action.

But with a house edge of 0.54%, your expected loss on that kind of action is only $3.77.

That’s right.

Playing slots costs you 10 times as much as playing video poker.

Video poker offers other advantages over slots, too. One of these is the skill element. You might not want to think about what you’re doing when you’re gambling.

But if you’re anything like me, you want to be able to at least exert a little bit of control over your destiny.

In video poker, you get to do that. The decisions you make playing each hand have a direct effect on your bottom line.

Play your hands well, and you’ll be playing one of the best gambling games in the house.

Should You Play Slot Machines at All?

This is a legitimate question. Should you play slot machines at all?

Here are some pros and cons of playing slots:

Pros:

• You can win bigger jackpots on slot machine games than any other gambling game except maybe keno. If you’re looking for a life-changing jackpot, like you’d see if you won a lotto drawing, slots are the way to go.
• They require little in the way of attention or effort on the part of the player. This suits some temperaments just fine. Relaxing in front of the spinning reels seems like a good deal for a lot of people.
• They’re available in an endless variety. You can find a slot machine game with any theme you can imagine. Love Elvis Presley? You’ll find a slot machine for it. Play Dungeons & Dragons when you were 12? There’s a slot for that, too. The themes and games are almost endless.

Cons:

• They offer some of the worst odds in the house. The house edge for slot machines vary widely. Some of them might offer good odds, but most of them have a house edge of between 5% and 10%. This isn’t awful. After all, roulette has a house edge of 5.26%. The problem is that slots play so fast that you can easily put more money into an action than you thought you could.
• You can’t figure out what the odds are. I have a philosophical problem with slot machine games. No other casino game is opaque about your odds. You can calculate the house edge for any table game in the casino. You can calculate it for video poker, too. But you’re never given the information you need to figure out the house edge on a slot machine. This is unacceptable to me.
• They’re designed to be addictive. Slot machine manufacturers spend millions doing research into what kinds of stimuli are going to put most people into the “flow” state. Flow is great if you’re interested in personal productivity at work, but if you’re playing a gambling game, it’s awful. No other casino game is as addictive as a slot machine.

Conclusion

Yes, slot machines are honest—in a manner of speaking, anyway. Casinos don’t make claims about slot machines that are blatantly untrue. If a game has a maximum jackpot of $1 million, you do have a chance of winning that much money.

What you don’t know is how likely or unlikely it is to win that amount.

Is this disingenuous on the part of the casinos?

I think it is, at least to some extent.

But all casino games have math behind them that puts the odds in the casino’s favor. That’s just the nature of the games. Slots are no different in that respect.

No matter which casino game you play, if you stick with it long enough, you’ll eventually lose all your money.

The only exceptions are certain games that can be played with advantage techniques, but that’s another subject entirely.

The only way for you to get an edge against a slot machine game is to cheat.

In most jurisdictions, cheating is blatantly illegal. You’re better off learning to play poker at an expert level, or learning how to count cards in blackjack.

For the longest time I have been debating with other players about
these so-called random number generators machines that for some reason everyone believes they are legit. These machines cost over $10,000 for each unit not to just to be completely random. There are other features that make these much more valuable.
these machines have the ability to read every card while shuffling and they can be remotely programmed to play different card games. Each machine has 2 different cameras inside!

They claim the reason they use these machines is to get more hands
dealt. Each time a hand is dealt the house gets a few dollars for their
cut.The machines shuffle a deck while game is in play, so when one hand is done the dealer just loads the machine back up with the deck just played, while grabbing the other deck that's been shuffled.
Can anyone answer any of these red flags because i have asked the
dealers the floor man the pit boss and not one have answered any.

1. Why do they have 2 cameras inside, when i spoke with a bally
representative he claimed its to catch cheaters. He had a machine
opened up and showed me the cameras he then took a card out while it was opened and turned it on. the shuffler started shuffling and then stopped. Sure enough, on the screen popped up the 8 of hearts the card that the rep. was holding. IT CAN READ THE CARDS PEOPLE! RED FLAG!
2. I then asked the rep. can this machine only play 1 game? The rep.
said oh no this game can be remotely programmed to play any game the user desires. IT CAN BE REMOTELY PROGRAMMED PEOPLE!THEREFORE IT CAN BE REMOTELY PROGRAMMED AND PLACE ANY CARD WHERE IT CHOOSES.THINK ABOUT IT.
IT CAN GIVE YOU THE BEST LOOKING HAND MAKING YOU THINK THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY OF LOSING. SO YOU GO ALL IN,EITHER PRE FLOP WITH YOUR ACES OR KINGS OR AFTER THE FLOP, ON THE TURN, OR THE RIVER! ONLY TO LOSE ALL
YOUR CHIPS TO SOME DONKEY HAND.THE ARGUMENT I HAVE WITH OTHER PLAYERS IS WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS WHEN WE ARE ALL PLAYING AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.
WELL........ LETS JUST THROW OUT ONE REMARK THAT THEY MAKE ENOUGH MONEY. HAVE YOU EVER MET ANYONE THAT CLAIMS THEY MAKE ENOUGH MONEY? In my opinion the main reason they dictate the cards is for JACKPOTS! YOU KNOW FOR SURE THESE CASINOS HATE PAYING OUT THE JACKPOTS. WITH THESE MACHINES THEY CAN DECIDE WHEN AND WHAT SEATS HIT AND HAVE THEIR PLAYER OR PLAYERS COLLECT THE PURSE. THAT'S A NO BRAINER! one casino i have played at there is this old man who has hit the jackpot over 30 times while others that have played there just as much never hit it once. Hes just real lucky that's all! Another argument is they cant do that they will get caught by the gaming commission. They monitor all the casinos. How are they going to catch them its impossible to prove.
3. Ive asked the dealer why do they cut the deck every time in half. why cant they cut it differently each shuffle. their response is they cant.WHY CANT THEY! RED FLAG
4.ON SEVERAL INSTANCES THE SHUFFLERS JAM UP AND STOP WORKING. SO WHY AT THAT POINT INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR A NEW MACHINE TO BE IN LIKE MOST OF THEM DO, WHY DON'T THEY START SHUFFLING AND DEAL THE CARDS. THEY ARE SO CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING MORE DROPS IN?
5. DON'T YOU THINK THAT ITS STRANGE HOW THE WSOP DOESN'T USE THESE MACHINES. THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE COMPETE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER, WOULDN'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD WANT TO GET THROUGH THE HANDS WITH MUCH FASTER AND
WITH A RANDOM NUMBER SHUFFLE THEN HAND SHUFFLED.
If anyone has any insight on why this continues in all the casinos, or
any factual rebuttals, i would love to hear from you. As it stands right now for me i don't play with these machines anymore only
hand shuffled games which are only tournaments. being in southern
California there is only one casino that i have come across that has a
hand shuffled cash game and that 2 hours from me.

Comments

1. I have definitely been pondering this one for a few reasons. One has to do with an experience in a small poker room using the machines a few years back when the cards just landed too strangely to be real for a whole Friday night. The next day was 'normal' again. I didn't think about it too much as I was a beneficiary that night as a 'new' player I was welcomed with great hands, pots, and a lot of money that night. After that first night, it was never the same again for me there. I still look back at that night and say to myself, was I really that good at poker that I was able to turn $100 into $2000 in 4 hours? That has never happened before or since.

   Fast forward to today, when I know much more about technology, and card odds.
   I took a random interest in 3 card poker this week, and starting watching it more. It is computer dealt to each player first 3 cards at a time with the dealer last under very strict rules about staying in your seat at all times, waiting for all cards to be dealt before looking, and never hand-shuffled ever. I also had a pro tell me that it is typically good to sit first or last in a full or nearly full game. That sounded bizarre to me, but I tested it, and sure enough, I was hitting bonuses, 3 card straights and flushes, and was even struck by some of the full houses made by neighboring hands, whether it connected to the dealer or not (the full house bonus of your best 5 made from your 3 cards with the house's 3 cards). Sitting in the middle of the table was death for almost everyone.
   Not my favorite game in general, but it did make me think more about those machines.

   So, there are 2 schools of thought- One is that it just is not good for business if this was really happening, and who would keep pouring money down a fixed system, not to mention liability from the company that makes Shuffle Master.

   Enough people win, that it doesn't look fixed, and it's nearly impossible to prove. Also, we Americans like to think that the gaming commission would prevent such a thing; however, how many times in the last 20 years have we made discoveries as a society about things that should have been caught, noticed, or detected and it took way too long. (9-11 for instance among 1000s) However, it is interesting that one company alone has a monopoly on these machines which have been adopted into most major casinos, and it has all the features you mentioned. Not that Vegas hasn't had a monopoly on other businesses, and made sure that maximum gain was made at the expense of the gambler. We all know it's possible, but would they really give a game a house edge to maximize profit? Certainly. Would people still win? Certainly. Does blackjack seem wonky when played out of one of those machines? Absolutely. Are flops stranger than hell from those machines, yes! Do more players get pocket pairs and A-J, A-Q, A-K then usual from those machines? Yes. I have noticed all of these, but can't really prove it.

   I have been careful not to mention any specifics in this dialogue, but I am very curious if others experiences resemble mine in any way in any or other games. It seems that once you detect the patterns, you can effectively play better, but there will always be random curveballs thrown into the mix. And, we can't forget that Poker especially can be as random as it gets, and anything is truly possible. But, once you've seen enough hands, I think most of us can detect something is strange when too many things happen that are too good to be truly random.

2. thank you both for your advice. shuffle masters was bought by a company called Bally. I was at the Bicycle casino and was walking through the floor and i came across a fellow who worked for bally not the casino. he was a repair man. he had a shuffler with the top cover removed so you could see the inside. This was a great time i thought to get some answers about the machines that all the casinos use. So i played it cool and asked him can these machines read cards. he said yes they each are equipped with 2 cameras. i then asked can this machine just play 3 card poker or 5 card stud etc... he said oh no these machines can be remotely programmed to play any game. he also stated how expensive they were and how they are rented by casinos like you said. Those 2 facts are a recipe for disaster. This proves that machines are capable of setting up the deck how ever they want. Now are we to be trusting knowing its impossible to prove that these poker rooms are not going to cheat us, im sorry fellas they are for sure. try this next live cash game you play. At all the single deck BJ tables they allow you to cut the deck with a card and some other games when they use a shoe. you are allowed to cut it where ever you choose true? Ask the dealer to cut the deck in a different place then always directly in half. this would throw off the deck and eliminate the cheat. They wont do it. they claim that they are not allowed to. WTF is that all about. I asked them why? they have no reason why just because! now that's another RED FLAG. I am blown away at most players refusal to see the truth and back these machines without even looking at the facts. The casino could also offer at least 1 table that has a hand shuffled live cash game but they are too greedy apparently. This is a big deal when it comes down to it. I would think by having just these few red flags that something could be done to blackball these cheats. The house is already favored without these machines. am i really asking too much?

3. These are my thoughts based on a poker room only, not pit games....

   1. In the event of cheating, it is always beneficial and faster to know what card is missing so it can be identified and, as a player, ensures me that I am in fact NOT being cheated by someone holding a card. You're focused on being cheated by the casino when it's design is to prevent being cheated by others which helps you.

   2. There is no way the machines are used to 'set up the deck' to hit jackpots. I will have to agree with @zzjitterzz that you are being far too paranoid. Additionally, the machine can never know if, after being shuffled, a one or multiple players will ask to be dealt out, get up for a walk etc. which will change the order of the deal. Additionally, there is no way to tell how any player will a specific hand.

   3. Cutting the deck was done historically to prevent stacking the deck. Cutting it in half makes sense. Also, if you can find me a dealer that can cut a deck at the 26th card every single time, I would be impressed. Setting up a deck, then cutting it exactly at card 26 seems like an impossibility. Dealers cut decks around the half way mark but no chance they are exact every time which means the deal is going to be different even if the deck is 'set up.'

   4. It is faster to clear a jam than it is to replace a machine. Yes they are concerned about getting more drops in - casinos are not non-profit organizations. As a poker player, I would like more hands per hour as well. That should be seen as a win/win. Also, I have seen on many occasions that when a machine malfunctions a couple times, they will replace it and hand shuffle until a different machine is brought over.

   5. WSOP utilizes fold out tables to accommodate the thousands of players in multiple conference rooms, not a normal poker room. It's not weird. It's not fiscally responsible to have hundreds of shuffle machines for a 2 month period. Tournaments held inside poker rooms that I have played in (Vegas included) use the shuffle machines.

4. @luksuk As far as the jackpots go. it wouldnt matter either way if the player got up or not. first reason is that they still deal his hand as if he were there after the cards are dealt they collect the 2 cards so this woulndt throw of the cheat. second if he is involved with collecting the jackpot he would know not to leave the table.
   when i said DIRECTLY IN HALF i didnt mean directly exactly in half. but i have asked the dealer could you cut the deck differently and they are not allowed to do so. also think about it the deck wouldnt need to be cut exactly in half for the cheat not to work. why, because if the cards being placed were meant for lets say 6th or 7th position the cheat would still be affect. the cards that are arranged are still lined up. try it yourself at home with a deck. hey maybe i am paranoid or just maybe im right on the button. its kind of strange how on the last four times i sat down at oceans eleven in a simple 20$ buy in the very 1st hand i got was AA!!!! four times in a row. on different days totally random i get dealt pocket aces.hmmmmmmmm i guess i was just lucky! my paranoid mind might just help us all down the road. Just do me favor fellow poker friend when you play with the machine next time pay attention to what i have been paranoid about. its really not that complex to stack the deck. especially a mathematical genius like a computer. also did you notice when they swap the machines out when they jam up. pay attention its not only a shuffler Its a mini computer with a computer fan and a switch with a hard drive! its programmable! trust that ! i simply just dont play with them anymore! its a bummer though because where i live there isnt one live cash game that is hand shuffled. morongo was the only won left that was hand shuffled, but guess what last month they shut down their poker room to revamp it and make it bigger they claim. funny thing is its the same exact size it has always been. the only difference is yup they now too only use these shufflers. go figure. now why on earth didnt they post that when they claimed it was to make the room bigger. the room is the same size people! if it was to put in tables for these so called legit shufflers then why didnt they just say that. anyways.... im not blind to see hope this helps.we should ban these stupid machines for good. i know i know keep dreaming there bucko! good luck all

5. @INSIDESTR8 I could say so very much more on this, but I want to give few quick examples.
   I folded a K3 into a 20 dollar raise at a 1/2 game in Vegas....
   One caller... Flop is AK3.... preflop raiser bets to 50, gets re-raised to 100, calls....
   Turn card is 6... Money goes all in on the turn... and a call....
   River card is another K...
   So the board reads AK36K....
   The preflop raiser flips over AA for a hand of AAAKK full house...
   The other guy flips over KK for a hand of KKKKA quad kings with Ace kicker...
   SICK!!!! Now remember what I folded?
   K3.... So there was 5 kings in the deck...
   I never called floor over quickly to check the muck pile, but I SWEAR this I folded K3.
   The bad beat from the guy having AA is insane enough, but 5 kings? and of course I hit the K3 on the flop... These sorts of hands are FAR MORE COMMON with the auto shuffler...
   The board pairs far more often than it ever should in hand shuffle.
   There are so many full houses it is beyond 'normal probability' ...

   More examples: Three different people here in Vegas told me that in the last few days they saw quads get beaten by straight flush. THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
   That is supposed to be extremely rare and likely would never witness it or hear of someone witnessing it, yet here it happens three different times in a few short days of LIVE poker where not that many hands are dealt per hour. (max of maybe 50-60)
   Why would the casino's pay thousands of dollars for these card shufflers and tables?
   Um ACTION and higher rake and higher tips for dealers.
   Read more about how the card shuffler works and you will also find it doesn't even matter about the 'cut' the dealer makes.... Research it... The cards can still be setup for action and not care whom gets 'favored'... Usually one seat gets hot streak for a bit, then extremely cold... Sometimes you can totally sense the turn and river uncannily give you the runner runner (after you folded)
   Pay more close attention next time you sit where this is an auto shuffler....
   It is not the same as a dealer shuffling. There are less 'wow, look at that lucky card' crap...

   Why can't we go back to the days when dealers ACTUALLY DEALT and did the shuffle and participated in doing their job fully? We would indeed see a normalization of outcomes of hands. Less 4 card flushes or even 5 cardboard flushes, less full houses and less 'action river' that helps both players or many players in the hand miraculously.
   Someone needs to collect full algorithm data on the card shuffle machines using video cameras or some kind of method of recalling every single hand detail and seeing if indeed it is very far off what probability % it should be at.

6. I've tried to ignore this thread, as conspiracy theorists cannot be argued with, but: I'm not familiar with the internal workings of auto shufflers, but the real problem with this theory, is that stacking the deck is stupid, unless you have a specific person to stack it for. In other words, dealing quads to a random person is pointless. That means you have to have a player who is 'in on it'. And if this is a commonplace happening, that means LOTS of people who are 'in on it'. Where are the dozens of people who are saying, 'I used to be that guy!'? I know your reply will be, 'Anyone that squeals is quickly buried in the desert'. In which case the initial 'squeal' would still be out there, followed by the disappearance of the squealer. Secondly, that would mean you have just escalated a theoretical auto shuffler scam into theoretical mass murder!

7. @SecretSapient I see your point but why on earth would anyone squeal? Think about it put yourself in their shoes.
   1. They are making money not losing money playing a game they enjoy.
   2. they are gods at the table. their ego is soaring and dominating with no chance of losing or being beat
   3. no more bad beats, you thought you had them beat but that darn river,
   4. other cocky opponents get theirs too at the hands of you, the super pro, who no matter what in the end will take your stack.
   also on the other side of the coin here is another way they can go about without a inside player. The players come and go through out the day. The money never leaves the table regardless. the players leave but the money doesn't. It either goes from one stack to another. when you are on a good run how many players on average get up from the table while on a good winning streak. I bet you its next to nothing. your winning at the table you want to keep going. So what if they lose a few on the account of the player taking the money and running out the door on their first win which very rarely happens. regardless If you are dominating the table, you will not leave with that stack. at any given time a new player comes in and low behold takes you out when you turn a straight and he pairs the board for a full house. Its not that hard to complete this cheat people. THE STRANGEST PART OF THIS ALL IS THESE CASINOS HAVE YOU ALL WRAPPED AROUND THEIR FINGERS. WE ALL KNOW THEY ARE THE BIGGEST CHEATERS WHEN IT COMES TO THE SLOT MACHINES BUT NOT AT THE TABLE GAMES. THEY ARE COMPLETELY HONEST. THEY DONT NEED THESE SHUFFLERS, WHY DO WE CONTINUE TO ALLOW THIS POSSIBILITY, WHATS STUPID IS ITS ANOTHER 'WHAT IF ' THAT WE MUST CONSIDER. DONT WE HAVE ENOUGH OTHER POSSIBILITY'S TO WORRY ABOUT. WHY CANT THEY LET US PLAY THIS GAME FAIR AND SQUARE. WE PLAY THIS GAME BECAUSE WE ALL ENJOY IT. MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ITS ALL A TRICK PLAYED ON US. WHAT A JOKE.

8. @INSIDESTR8 i agree with you 100% i've seen so many crazy stuffs going on in live games, one time i was playing no limit holden i saw three people at my table hit quads in 15 mins. What are the odds of hitting quads three times in 15 mins? What are the odds of hitting runner runner quads? Unbelievable. Ever since they have high hand thing everybody hits quads and straight flushes like crazy. I am convinced that shuffle machines are rigged. But favor who? That is the answer we all need to find out...
   It would be helpful if you post this on TWOPLUSTWO forum

9. @Tjc112 These casinos are banking on these shufflers. I even had a floor rep. i wont name names but he runs this hand shuffled sit n gos only for 3 hrs a day Monday thru Friday. So I asked him why don't they run these all the time. He said that they claim that we are in the way of the bigger tournaments. When there are probably 50 tables that are never used completely empty? I said why cant we use those? He said its strange they wont even let him advertise for it. Then he says well really they don't like these sit n gos because its not profitable. They want to get you busted out as quick as possible so that you go and play the live cash games which are all played with the shufflers! wtf! There are so many red flags to this idea its ridiculous the majority of players are clueless or think im paranoid. Why on earth do these machines cost 15,000$? Not just to be completely random. These are mini computers with a hard drive and a cooling fan which is remotely programmed. They are so greedy too. Why not have both hand shuffled and auto shuffled live cash games if they were legit. I love this one i see all the time. the player asks the dealer if they would hand shuffle this round. So the dealer shuffles a few times by hand and the dealers should then cut the deck and deal the cards. NOPE they put the shuffled deck into the shuffler. WTF! I can go on and on and yes these rooms have these promos for high hands every hour players with the highest hands are rewarded. one player get quad aces, the next hand i get a low straight flush, then the very next hand another player flops a royal flush. Cmon people its not that far fetched.

10. @INSIDESTR8 My friends and I are currently dealing with the same situation and I can understand exactly how you feel. I have been playing live poker game at major rooms East Coast for many years, playing hundred thousands of hands and I can tell you based on my personal observation that something is wrong. I am not sure about other games but it seems like NL Holdem and PLO games are rigged. Many will ask this question why would poker rooms want to rig the game when they already make profits by collecting rates and times from the players? Why would they want to take those risks and why would they care who win and lose? I think there must be reasons behind. Let's me start pointing out these specific following reasons for you to understand 1) the game could be rigged in favor of W ppl 2) the game could be rigged in favor of biggest baccarat habits 3) there are house players involved 4) They can chose bad beat jackpot and high hand winner. It seems to me reason number 1 likely to be the case because the poker room where I play all I see is the same group of guys who keep winning day after day, they are not even that good in poker, often they get dealt with good starting hand and consistently smash the flop, turn or river when all your money goes in and they suck the crap out of you. My observation is that vast majority of those people are W. Next time when you head to a casino, pay attention who winning and you know exactly what i am talking about. Also, when we play poker tournament some casinos allow handed shuffle from the beginning but when it plays down to certain tables and that's when real money is in play they start using machine which is shady I guess they want to chose winner and loser. I stop playing poker tournaments because of this. It sucks to be minority poker players knowing the game is likely rigged against us. What can we do about it? Nothing. Just don't play until they ofter handed shuffle. Can't beat white machines.

11. It's obvious to me, since in Northern California they have a no cut the deck policy in play.
    Why can't the dealer cut the deck??

12. I have nothing against these machines,but they need to be made 100% mechanical and eliminate any rng chip that flips the cards as it does,otherwise it's just video poker with real cards. If the future shuffle master 2 has card recontion software and can shuffle and reshuffle in numerical order what it wants and knows minus the players chimed in say 8 player minus 16 cards then the burn cards don't matter because it can calculate that to. This also can create scenarios for complete casino control which as players we cant trust!l They do this to move more chips around and create rebuys in low limit games. This means it can spit out qq vs kk vs 10-j suited knowing very well the flop will be 8-9-2 with 2 spades as the 2 and the 9,following k spaded and blank river especially in lower limit games to create action and spew chips they dont care who wins they want rebuys and lots of pots. If it was just floating cards doing what they do in a mechanical shuffle that flipped them around for 40 seconds say 8 shuffles then that would reduce fatigue for the dealer and makes a perfect normal shuffle for the players unaltered or controlled.

13. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QHDgVWMdw4 It is supposedly a rng chip that chooses slots on a basis and moves cards around one by one. It's not that far fetched to think the machine has set programs with this theoretical card reader technology. Knowing this we can assume a machine could have straight flops to promote chasing more often,flush flops to also promote calling and occasionally big time flops to mix it up for player amusement. This is the entertainment business folks. The machine of course has no clue about the players chip count,but could possibly spew out hold cards as it wants along with a pre determined flop to keep winning hands in a pre determined seat ratio so the game keeps up with action rebuys,mostly rebuys again the casino doesn't care who wins al long as everyone keeps rebuying and is winning while losing then there ok with that.

14. @mikeisanace Nice Video, but what is it showing? I'm a little lost with the idea that the units are remotely programmed and controlled. But, everyone has their thoughts on how the units work. The main selling point that I understand is speed of game and anti-cheat measure with the camera to read the cards, as people still try to cheat at table games, from what I've seen via videos relating to In-House Dealers Cheating with Players.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEYls1BH06A

15. 1000% true. message me back if you want to know more about this subject.@drjameslent

16. @shuffleblaster Yes! Email me drjameslent@aol.com

17. @zzjitterzz Actually that is exactly why they would cheat in this manner. If the machine is set to deal “inducer hands” this will make sure that good starting hands lose to weaker hands more often than normal. This would prevent better players from being able to crush all the fish, keeps the fish coming back, keeps the games running.

18. @zzjitterzz Look into it. There was an anonymous post on Reddit by a guy who claimed to have written poker software with an “inducer hands” function. It was not very often but one out of every 100 hands or so it would deal say AA to one player and KJ to another, QTX flop, Ace turn. If the bad player gets the aces and shoves pre, he wins. If the bad player calls a big preflop raise with KJ, he wins. It doesn’t need to know who the bad player is to deal the inducer hand. I don’t think Shuffle Master makes a rigged machine, I think they can easilly be “adjusted” to either deal inducer hands or not, for instance. In other words the casino can set the machine to deal inducer hands, but then switch it back so it would pass an inspection.

    The benefit to the casino is simple. More big pots means more max rake. It also, as I have described, keeps fish winning, which ensures the fish come back.

19. Also of course, since not every hand is set as an inducer hand, it is perfectly fine if sometimes the deck being cut ruins it. Sometimes it wont.

20. I have been saying these things are sketchy all along most people call me a conspiracy nut. I'm glad to see another perceptive person out there. I have no hard proof of anything only my instincts and observation just one example what are the odds that I would get dealt the same hand number and suit 4 out 7 hands with 2 decks and no veriation in players also I seen one removed when jammed why a USB on it

21. look at the facts. Google shufflemaster patents and you can see these machines are programmable card sorters. Of course they are cheating with them.@Drob

22. look at the facts. Google shufflemaster patents and you can see these machines are programmable card sorters. Of course they are cheating with them.@Drob

23. I think that many of you ask this question. Why would US poker rooms want to rig live poker since players play against each other? After I've spent many years playing live poker I am comfortable to give conclusion base on my personal observation.

    1) It seems like the poker rooms rig shuffling machine in favor of white people and against minority groups (Asian, Black, Spanish and etc.,)
    2) If you are a minority person who has biggest bacarat habit and lose a lot of money to casino. When you play poker, the casino wants you to win by rigging the game in your favor because they know you likely lose all back to casino.
    3) There are casino players/shills that involve in the game. They send them to table to take your money and also collect bad beat jackpot and high hand.

    When you play live poker. I want you pay close attention the ones who keep beating you and use your professional observation then you know exactly what I am talking about. Are poker rooms racist against minority? I let you be the judge.

    I encourge you to keep JOURNAL for yourself in case you need it in the future. I also encourage to take action by reporting this scam to national department of poker. Hopefully they will take this seriously.

24. not on poker but playing mississippi stud one guy was winning while 5 others not getting nothing. when guy leaves someone else comes into his seat and nothing for the next 40 minutes for any of us. this shuttle machine caters to the big players the more money you play the better chance you will win something. but you bet small you see nothing. again this is table game called mississippi stud.

25. also if you notice the pit boss comes along and checks the screen on the shuffle machine often and notice at times he types something into the machine claims it is to check for totals why check for totals?

26. I recently posted comment on Reddit poker forum saying that I trully live poker is rigged. It is against minorities. I explained casino's motive why they are rigging poker shuffling machine. How nominority and casino players benefit from it. My post was deleted. I was banned from forum. I asked moderator why i was banned since I excercised my free speech. He replied 'Us whites need to protect this rigged secret. Can't let this knowledge get out. We must silence you' I have screenshot of it.

27. I think sadly I must stop playing live cash poker , I read these posts, insidestr8 guy is so right. This forum posts helped put all the pieces of the puzzle together. They also know what seat your in to remotely bless you or curse you. I am so tired of flopping the nuts, mostly sets on rainbow flops and lose to a caller going after a gut shot. I play almost perfect poker. Im just too sick to think of all the weird play I see. So when they swipe you in for your crappy 1$ a hour food comps it makes their job easier to know where your seated. I always suspected the card shuffler cheats and is remotely controlled by casino for action. I see way way WAY WAY too many aces come on the flop, why ??? There is only 4 aces in a deck but they almost always come on flop. I seem to play perfect poker build up a stack then some weird clean shaven white guy, and im white btw, anyways some nerdy guy will sit down and seem real confident. But just doesnt seem to be a poker player. Kind of acts like a robot seems out of place. And sooner or later i will get for example pocket jacks and it will be set over set on rainbow flop and he will have set of queens. One thing the casino cant control is my memory. I remember this so much I have finnaly had enough. The only way to win is to hit and run. Meaning I win my 2 to 500$ and go home or keep playing and defitnely lose from a cooler. Casinos like me they say there he is again our sucker who likes to go all in vs. Our chosen ppl to cooler him. Well i have had enough !!!!!! I quit, SADLY. I loved cash games but it is rigged with these auto sufflers. I have played many hours. I have seen too much bs its a cheat for sure. I play perfect poker get up to 600$ profit and want to play all night but the casino hates ppl like me, we kill the action by destroying the fishes. Casino needs the fishes. Think about it, without the machines the fishes would run out of money and not come to play very much which in turn hurts the casino. Man i love this game what a sad day. I wish we all could go back to hand suffle. But sadly my voice is a minority. I loved these game but i refuse to play nl holdem or step foot in a casino again. It is not player vs. Player in cash game anymore. It is player vs suffle remotely controlled casino staff vs robot player casino friends vs other players. I have had enough , it is a fraud i would rather play online if i ever play again. I never played online but at least if i get cheated by online casino , the eyes in the sky cant see my weird look when i realize i preflop raise 25$ in a 1/3 game , KK , called by a newly sit downed robot looking rich man and flop is K52 rainbow, i then bet 75$ instant called knowing the fish probally has a up and down str8 draw, turn is a blank, i bet 150$ instant called by fish, river is a 3, i bet all in which is rest of his stack, he calls , yup yup but not a up and down, this fish risked it all and had a A4 for a gut shot. This is just one of many coolers. Like i said casinos hate ppl like me who beat up the fishes, they sit and wait then remotely control the shufflers to get back the money. I just wont play the hit and run game, waste of my time. I like playing for 8 hrs, not 1 hour, man im am so dudjdjddjdjjdjjddjdj upset, bye my beloved game bye, cheated by casino too many times set over set twice on many nights, im done !

28. @rays387 also on a high hand promotion night he is right, so many royal and str8 flushes its crazy and set up hands to screw you. And i always notice same small group of people getting high hands, even on back to back. I see so many sets over sets. Last year i was suspicious. So i went home and pretended to be a dealer with a full 9 handed table. I hand shuffled and dealt all day long like 13 hours taking breaks here amd there. And none of my ghost players got screwed, no sets over sets , also only a few players was dealt poket kings and pocket aces. Not very many pocket pairs. When someone had a pocket pair , there was usually one dealt out per hand. But in real live cash game machine shuffled poker multiple pocket pairs dealt out and same playeds get back to back aces kings etc. To see this one must played a long time like me, over 20 years. I think overall im down 5 to 10,000$ and im a very good player. Just get bad coolers here and there. I was up stuck at plus 5 to 8,000$ many years then slowly i quess the machine shufflers took all my winnings away with little loses here and there that add up. So i quess i almost broke even so im lucky. But all the time and gas money food i used all these recent past years playing a rigged game shuffle machine im still down alot of $. Any tips of how to beat this. Do i win a little at one table then go another table $ do i wear disquises and dont use my bravo players card so they dont know who i am ? I did notice i have a good win rate at baccarat , i win 100$ then leave table and sit another table. Pisses off the floormen i can tell, cause they cant remotley screw me on a new shoe. I wish poker would go back to hand suffled. If we all stood together and demand this the casino would listen. But so many players trust these hand sufflers. And ur right its so funny and stupid. Players say please hand mix wash shuffle the cards. Then the dealer smiles and says sure, then after the wash mixing they go str8 back into machine. And the player thinks they mixed up. I notice when a machine nreaks down, its like 911 was called the dealer amd floorman get nervous and quickly get new machine. Looks like non casino card player owners now control the game. It used to be our game player vs player. But not anymore. Its a bingo game, totally fake. Fish keep calling all in's with gut shots, flush draws str8 draws cause they get rewarded constantly. Fish couldnt survive in a hand suffled real game. Cause those games are slower, more bluffing, alot less set up fake exciting hands, and a real grind, but thats real poker. And i could have made a living off of it. But it makes since folks, fish and poor players are the majority and the casinos will cater to the majority. Happy fishing e1 ur be cheated and its right under ur nose, the rigged remotely controlled suffle master machine with computer chip to perfectly give u a coolered hand.

Online Poker Promotions

Questions Posted in TableTalk

• General weekend players vs weekday players for NL

  What's the usual crowd weekend vs weekday? Is the competition tougher on the weekends?

• Home Game

  Anyone know of any home games in the Philadelphia area. Particularly 1-2 but really anything. Thank you.

• Looking for oregon city home game.

  Juat wondering if anyone has a seat in a home game close to OC. I'm ok with any buy in.

Recent TableTalk Posts

• Traveling to Philadelphia Miss

  Looking forward to the then multi bag tournament at Pearl River Resort. Hope to see you there.

• House game NOHO 1-2 NL HOLDEM

  HOUSE GAME 1-2 NL HOLDEM IN NOHO. GAME IS THIS SATURDAY AROUND 5PM- TABLE BREAK. FREE FOOD AND DRINKS PLUS PROFESSIONAL DEALER. 40-400 BU...

• Monday Feb.15

  Will we be having a Monday afternoon Tournament????